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barrievattoy
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What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:54 am

BC Homes sales posts strongest October in the last 4 years.

Visit: http://www.bcrea.bc.ca/docs/news-2013/2013-10.pdf

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Barrie Vattoy
www.relocationbc.com
 
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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:57 am

All these statistics and generally wrong as the MLS is NOT in any way the total or only sales of Real Estate. The MLS Realtor system does not take into account the FSBO statistics.
 
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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:41 pm

I understand that if a property is simultainiously listed in multiple MLS regions it's sale will be recorded as a sale in each MLS list and will show on the overall numbers as multiple sales. If that is so it's very misleading.
In fond memory of Taipan, a model of modesty, decency, dignity and tolerance. Long may we all prosper from the tremendous legacy of worldly wisdom and specialized real estate knowledge which he left in the "Arguments" thread.
 
barrievattoy
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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:30 am

A sale is reported as a sale. The number of private sales are very low in numbers and probably woulld not change any of the reported figures.
You may disagree with these numbers but they are correct.

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B. Vattoy
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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:18 pm

A sale is reported as a sale. The number of private sales are very low in numbers and probably woulld not change any of the reported figures.
You may disagree with these numbers but they are correct.

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B. Vattoy
http://www.relocationbc.com
That's fine but it's not what I was referring to.

Whilst I understand that "a sale is reported as a sale", it appears that sometimes "a sale" is reported as multiple sales. If that is correct it's very misleading. Here's an article on the subject:

(I've added holding and underline in a few places)
MLS Phantom Listings Distorting House Prices: Consultant

A real estate consultant’s warning that housing market data in Canada is being artificially inflated has some economists and market observers wondering whether the recent upswing in house sales and prices might be partly an illusion.

Real estate consultant Ross Kay alleges that realtors in certain parts of the country — particularly in Greater Toronto and southern Ontario — are artificially inflating home sales by listing the same property twice, or sometimes even three times.

Kay says when a double- or triple-listed house like this sells, the additional listings are counted as a sale by every one of the real estate boards to which the house is assigned. That turns one sold house into two or three sales in the housing data.

The end result, Kay argues, is that reported home sales and house price numbers are higher than they really are.

Statistically valid month-over-month comparisons on sales volumes are inflated as much as 15 per cent in some cities in 2013,” he told HuffPost in an email. “Average prices are skewed upward as much as 10 per cent some months.”

This screencap of homes for sale in Oakville, Ont., as of last Friday, shows a significant proportion of houses have “phantom listings.”



Ross Godsoe, CEO of the Realtors Association of Hamilton-Burlington, said Kay is “probably correct” in his claim that houses are being double- and triple-counted.

He told HuffPost Canada that any house listed in his area — even if it is listed elsewhere — would count towards the monthly sales numbers.

Godsoe could not say whether other real estate boards operated the same way. Calls to several other real estate boards in southern Ontario were not returned as of press time.

Under Ontario’s realty rules, realtors can’t be prohibited from listing houses in areas other than their own, Godsoe said.

“If a sale occurs, we’re obligated to report that,” he said, adding he did not know what the Canadian Real Estate Association (CREA) does with the numbers once it receives them.

CREA’s monthly numbers are arguably the most closely watched indicator of housing market health.

Story continues below slideshow
20 Coolest Condo Towers Going Up In Toronto

CREA spokesman Pierre Leduc told HuffPost the association checks the data coming from local boards to ensure houses aren't double-counted. That contradicts what Kay and others have said — that CREA only gets aggregate numbers from the boards, and has no way of telling whether houses are being double-counted.

“CREA takes the amalgamated data … from over 70 regional MLSs and adds it up and reports on it — no addresses are ever provided — without the ability to audit the data,” Kay told HuffPost in an email.

UPDATE: In a follow-up conversation, Leduc clarified that most real estate boards send the association only aggregate data, meaning CREA would not know if houses are double-counted. But for the handful of cities used in its house price index, CREA checks the data to eliminate double-counted houses, Leduc said.
CREA chief economist Gregory Klump could not say if CREA's data included double-counted houses. But he estimated the phantom listings account for no more than 0.8 per cent of the housing supply available.

Godsoe of the Hamilton-Burlington board similarly said any effect phantom listings would have would be “very minor.” He said he is "absolutely" confident in the reliability of his real estate board's numbers.

At the local level, the impact can still be significant. If a significant proportion of houses have double listings in places like Oakville, that could cause meaningful changes in house sales numbers for Hamilton, the Peel region and Greater Toronto.

And because the Toronto area is weighted so heavily in house price indices, it could be distorting national data as well.

In his own audit of CREA’s data, Kay said there were 2,902 more home listed as sold than there really were in August of this year. While CREA reported 40,315 homes sold in Canada in August, Kay’s audit found sales were only 37,413 — a difference of 7.2 per cent.

While CREA’s numbers report home sales in total are down 2.9 per cent for the year to date, compared to the same period last year, Kay’s audit found a decline in sales of 9.6 per cent this year so far.

Housing "remains fully in a full market correction phase," Kay concluded on his website.

Kay’s claims have some economists wondering about CREA’s numbers.

BMO economist Benjamin Reitzes noted the controversy in a client note Monday morning, and told HuffPost Canada he found that the sales numbers from the local Toronto-area boards compared to stats from CREA “were off just a little bit."

But Reitzes and other market observers said the practice was unlikely to raise house price numbers, because it increases the apparent supply of available houses as much as it increases the sales numbers.

Kay disagrees. He says the double- and triple-listings are concentrated more at the top of end the housing market, and those increased “sales” at the top end are pulling up the average house price.

Kay says the entire practice is possible because “the MLS infrastructure legally requires silence and non-disclosure of any fact that could negatively impact any active listing on the MLS or any of its members.” He says this has become a massive problem in reporting MLS data since 2010.

BMO’s Reitzes, like some other market observers, highlights another potential area of unreliability. He says he was told by CREA that the association doesn’t adopt revisions made to earlier numbers from local real estate boards — something he calls “a bit of a red flag” on the data.

Canada’s housing market has been showing surprising strength in recent months, after a slowdown last year following the introduction of tougher mortgage rules.

CREA’s own numbers, released Monday, show home sales rising 11.1 per cent nationally in August from the same month a year earlier.

The Toronto Real Estate Board reported a 21-per-cent jump in house prices from a year earlier for August, while Vancouver saw sales soar a stunning 52.5-per-cent jump in the same period, according to its local real estate board. There are few “phantom listings” in evidence in the Vancouver market.

Kay’s website features a warning not to trust home sales numbers for both Toronto and Vancouver.

“If you need statistics in any of these areas DO NOT rely on the real estate associations serving those communities. You must get audited data for these areas,” the website states.

UPDATE: Caroline Feeley, a sales rep with Sutton Group Quantum Realty in Mississauga, writes in to say she agrees the double and triple listings are distorting the statistics.
"I am not at all pleased with loading a listing three times and I feel that it is ridiculous to have to do so," Feeley writes. But she explains she has no choice, because of the way the "fractured" real estate board system works. In her own words:

What you don't know and what the public doesn't know is that the listing needs to appear separately on the Toronto Real Estate Board, the Oakville, Milton and District Real Estate Board and the Realtor's Association of Hamilton and Burlington for Realtors to be able to search the full listing from their home board. What this means is that if I were to only list the property on RAHB, realtors from the other boards would not be able to search and find the full listing! Since most properties are purchased with a buyer working with a realtor, I will do everything I can to ensure that realtors across the real estate boards have access to all my listing.

My listing in Waterdown should, at the very least, be listed on RAHB because this is where the property is located, and local realtors need to have full access to the listing. But why should Oakville and Mississauga agents not also be able to see this listing on their board? To me, it's ridiculous that they don't automatically have this access. A lot of real estate transactions are from people moving east to west. If my listing on Victoria Street was not also listed on OMDREB and TREB, I would potentially be excluding all the prospective buyers working with realtors on those boards.

As long as we have multiple real estate boards in the province that operate this way, a good realtor will list on multiple boards. I hope that one day soon, there will be an amalgamation of boards or some way that we can ensure all realtors have full access to listings, but until that day, in my practice anyway, the numbers will be distorted as I continue to serve the best interest of my client.
In fond memory of Taipan, a model of modesty, decency, dignity and tolerance. Long may we all prosper from the tremendous legacy of worldly wisdom and specialized real estate knowledge which he left in the "Arguments" thread.
 
barrievattoy
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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:29 pm

Thanks for the info. We are under the BCREA and at last look we are not Toronto. To the Best of my knowlege a Sale is a Sale.
This is a problem with a lot of info out there on this site... people hear some information or use info that is not revelant to our Province. There has been a huge number of posts over the last few years ago stating the Housing market is going to drop off the table. No facts just an opinion not supported with facts. Numbers will tell you the real stories about the market.
I still standby my previous post.

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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:39 am

Thanks for the info. We are under the BCREA and at last look we are not Toronto. To the Best of my knowlege a Sale is a Sale.
At last look the article specifically warned of the same practice in Vancouver. I noticed that you qualified your statement with the words "to the best of my knowledge". Isn't it true that the BCREA, like the CREA, also draws its sales data from multiple local boards and if "a sale" can show up in the stats as multiple sales - that's a problem?
This is a problem with a lot of info out there on this site... people hear some information or use info that is not revelant to our Province.
That problem does not seem to apply in this case. Because BC has more than one local board (Vancouver, Fraser Valley, etc., etc.), it appears likely that the BREA numbers are subject to the same multiple reporting of single sales, hence the observations are very relevant to our Province.

The article pointed out that the "CREA only gets aggregate numbers from the boards, and has no way of telling whether houses are being double-counted." It also stated "CREA chief economist Gregory Klump could not say if CREA's data included double-counted houses."

Are you saying that the BC system is different and Fraser Valley listings never show up on the Vancouver MLS, etc.? Conversely, If there are multiple listings of one property on multiple boards can you state with confidence that they are detected by the system, and if so, why don't they do it in Ontario and at the national level instead of publishing sales numbers which are so obviously inflated?

Note this comment which I underlined in the article - "Kay’s website features a warning not to trust home sales numbers for both Toronto and Vancouver." At last look Vancouver was still included in BCREA numbers.
There has been a huge number of posts over the last few years ago stating the Housing market is going to drop off the table. No facts just an opinion not supported with facts.
Although I remain a long-term bull I think it is only fair to acknowledge that the many verifiable facts supporting the bearish opinions can be quite compelling, and logically they become even more so as we drift further and further away from historically normal price/rent/income relationships, particularly when the drift has been propelled by "emergency" low interest rates. The big question about the coming correction is the timing, it could be soon or perhaps there's still some life in the bull market yet, I don't know when it will happen but I'm deeply suspicious of those who imply it never will.
Numbers will tell you the real stories about the market.
I think that's true and that's why so many people resent the lack of reliable numbers. The unaudited "Frankenumbers" from the real estate industry are less than helpful and appear to be crafted to produce a positive spin. About the only reliable numbers we can all see clearly are "emergency" low interest rates and the ever increasing disconnect between prices, rents and incomes. Even this tired old bull is getting uneasy.
I still standby my previous post.
With all due respect, the following quote suggests you are obliged to do so.
“the MLS infrastructure legally requires silence and non-disclosure of any fact that could negatively impact any active listing on the MLS or any of its members.” He says this has become a massive problem in reporting MLS data since 2010.
Please understand that I enjoy your input to this forum because I like to see both sides of the argument. My intent is not to discredit you but merely to bring some balance to what I see being presented, I have a long history of questioning the comments and assumptions of some bears too. The article I posted appears to be relevant to the sales numbers which are being reported locally and any verifiable facts which you can present with regard to the local reporting methods is most welcome. The issue of multiple reporting of single sales is of particular interest.

As an aside, if I was a vendor making use of a real estate sales person I would expect my agent (who only I am paying) to always put my interests ahead of those of any purchaser. I would expect my agent to be honest but I would not see it as his/her job to do the "due diligence" for the buyer. I think it is the selling agent's job to always put as positive a spin on things as is ethically possible and I imagine that you agree.
In fond memory of Taipan, a model of modesty, decency, dignity and tolerance. Long may we all prosper from the tremendous legacy of worldly wisdom and specialized real estate knowledge which he left in the "Arguments" thread.
 
barrievattoy
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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:35 pm

I'm sorry but you are too intense for me to comment any further.

Regards,
B. Vattoy
www.relocationbc.com
 
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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:25 pm

I'm sorry but you are too intense for me to comment any further.

Regards,
B. Vattoy
http://www.relocationbc.com
That's funny! :lol:
In fond memory of Taipan, a model of modesty, decency, dignity and tolerance. Long may we all prosper from the tremendous legacy of worldly wisdom and specialized real estate knowledge which he left in the "Arguments" thread.
 
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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:30 am

Earlier in this thread I posted an article questioning the legitimacy of the sales figures released by some of Canada's Real Estate Boards, including BC.

Barrie Vattoy quickly responded with the following observations:
Thanks for the info. We are under the BCREA and at last look we are not Toronto. To the Best of my knowlege a Sale is a Sale.

This is a problem with a lot of info out there on this site... people hear some information or use info that is not revelant to our Province.
I reminded Barrie that the article specifically mentioned BC as a source of questionable real estate statistics and that our multi board reporting system appears to allow multiple reports of single sales, thus artificially inflating the number of sales and creating a situation where, despite his "best knowledge", a sale is a sale but it might be reported as several sales.

I then invited him to provide his input on just how the local reporting system works and whether or not the numbers he recently reported were subject to the same artificial inflation seen elsewhere. Regrettably, Barrie chose to avoid further comment because he finds me "too intense".

It seems to me that if you are going to post your own industry's numbers as factual you should be willing to defend them, or at least clarify the methodology which produced them. Barrie's unwillingness to explain the methodology behind those numbers prompted me to look further and it didn't take long to find this local article which also questions the veracity of the industry's numbers in BC and elsewhere. The article is from the Huffington Post and is written by a Fraser Valley businessman.

The apparent unwillingness to address reasonable questions about the numbers is disturbing.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/win-wachsm ... 61432.html

What's Happening to Housing Statistics in Canada?

Over the past few weeks the various media have inundated us with housing projections, prophecies and prognostications.

The housing market is going up -- or going down! (compared to what?)

What do those headlines even mean? Are housing starts up? Are housing prices up? Are the number of homes sold up? Or are more and more people building and living in concrete high rises?

And to what does "housing" refer?

The three broad housing categories are condominiums (condos), town houses and single family homes (SFH). (We have purposefully excluded those living in double-wides or in tents)

Lumping all three categories together and arriving at a kind of super number to reflect the housing market is disingenuous at best and darn right deceptive at worst.

When we examine the various housing numbers, it is also impossible to do an accurate analysis of any kind if we use the commonly misused word "average".

Does "average" refer to median (half the numbers are higher and half are lower? (3,4,5,6,7; i.e. 2 numbers are lower and 2 are higher.)

Or does "average" refer to arithmetic mean - where the sum of the values is divided by the number of values.? (In other words the average of 2,2,1,4 & 16 is 5; i.e. 25/5)

In recent months the Canadian Real Estate Association (CREA) and its various provincial boards have come under increasing criticism for manipulating sales and price figures.

Their favorite word? Average. They even have a page called the National Average Price Map (National Average Price Map)

Former Federal Conservative Revenue Minister Garth Turner, reveals some examples of their shenanigans on his website The Greater Fool (Manipulation) and (Truth and Trust)

For those ideological purists who will never accept TRUTH from a former Tory, no matter what, they are encouraged to examine the details presented by former realtor Ross Kay at (rosskay.com)

While studying mathematics and science in University, I was introduced to a marvelous book called How to Lie With Statistics by Darrell Huff (available from Amazon here How to Lie With Statistics).

J. M. Steele from Statistical Science, 20 (3), 2005, 205-209. is quoted as saying,

"Over the last fifty years, How to Lie with Statistics has sold more copies than any other statistical text.
Huff details how to spot data (statistical) manipulation and how to read data analysis properly so that you will not be misled.

It seems that the folks in the Real Estate Associations and Boards have been buying this book by the case lot as their data manipulation has been elevated to a new art form.

Not only are their numbers suspect, but the language used on their website and in their press releases also easily exceeds the Statistical Hyperbolic Indicative Terminology index.

Here's an example:

"While the Finance Minister will no doubt continue to keep a close eye on Canadian housing markets for signs of overheating as interest rates remain low, October sales results may provide him with reassurance that tightened mortgage regulations and lending guidelines are working as intended." said Gregory Klump, CREA's Chief Economist.


Love those rose-colored glasses Gregory.

So what is happening with housing statistics in Canada?

For those looking for easy answers, check out the mainstream media, who seem to be in the press release rewriting mode. In some cases they don't even disguise their laziness. It's Press Release Verbatim!

That probably works for your maiden aunt and those Low Information Readers.

For the rest, you will have to do some digging to come up with the real Real Estate Data.

Don't go making huge real estate buying decisions based on data released by realtors and Real Estate Associations whose main goal is to separate you from your hard-earned money. By buying/upgrading/enhancing your lifestyle.

Is now a good time to buy? Will prices ever go down? Can I afford to wait?

If you are an affluent and successful boomer, perhaps now is the time to sell. Before all the other boomers get wise to a declining market?

Evaluate all those housing statistics carefully.

Who is promoting that data? What's in it for them? Are they looking out for you? Or for themselves?

Do they have a vested interest?

The information is out there. It requires some effort. Are you prepared to spend a few hours to save thousands? Your call.

Spend some time and effort now or lose many dollars later. Your choice.
The website of Ross Kay is referenced above, this segment is particularly pertinent to the current discussion and is good reading:

http://www.rosskay.com/october-2013-nat ... eport.html

Once again, I invite Barrie to refute the data and comments in this post and on Mr. Kay's website. I do hope this request for his side of the story is not "too intense".
In fond memory of Taipan, a model of modesty, decency, dignity and tolerance. Long may we all prosper from the tremendous legacy of worldly wisdom and specialized real estate knowledge which he left in the "Arguments" thread.
 
barrievattoy
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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:18 am

Here's a reply.

This was posted in 2011 and the prices sure did drop. Not
Report this postReply with quoteRe: Property prices dropping
by vanreal » 19 May 2011 08:01 pm

Taipan wrote:
As we have been told as nauseam, prices are increasing, Yee Ha.

Well around Thompsons yum cha bar, they are and according to a the bulls on this site that is all that matters.

The reality is BC is huge.

I’ve got many many examples of property prices falling 25% - 35%.

So maybe they should create a new forum. BC should remain unchanged.

And a new forum called 10km around Thompsons yum cha bar.

So how is the rest of BC going. Victoria, Nanaimo, Prince George, Kamloops, Kelowna and a dozen other regional areas?

The reality appears that apart from Thompsons Yum cha bar that property prices are falling across the province.
 
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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:31 am

Here's An Article From The Same Time

Active home sellers bring greater selection to the Greater
Vancouver housing market
VANCOUVER, B.C. – August 3, 2011 – While the balance between home buyer and seller activity remains in an
equilibrium range in the Greater Vancouver housing market, last month’s home sale total was below the 10-year
average for July.
The Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver (REBGV) reports that residential property sales of detached, attached
and apartment properties on the region’s Multiple Listing Service® (MLS®) reached 2,571 in July, a 14
per cent increase compared to the 2,255 sales in July 2010 and a 21.2 per cent decline compared to the 3,262 sales
in June 2011.
“We’re seeing less multiple offer situations in the market today compared to the last few months, but our members
tell us that homes priced competitively continue to sell at a relatively swift pace,” Rosario Setticasi, REBGV
president said. “It’s taking, on average, 41 days to sell a property in the region, which is unchanged from June of
this year.”
New listings for detached, attached and apartment properties in Greater Vancouver totalled 5,097 in July. This
represents a 23.2 per cent increase compared to July 2010 when 4,138 properties were listed for sale on the
MLS® and a 12 per cent decline compared to the 5,793 new listings reported in June 2011.
Last month’s new listing total was 8.6 per cent higher than the 10-year average for July, while residential sales
were 17.3 per cent below the ten-year average for sales in July.
At 15,226, the total number of residential property listings on the MLS® increased 0.8 per cent in July compared
to last month and declined 7.3 per cent from this time last year.
“The number of homes listed for sale in the region has increased each month since the start of the year, which is
giving buyers more selection to choose from and more time to make decisions,” Rosario Setticasi, REBGV president
said.
The MLSLink® Housing Price Index (HPI) benchmark price for all residential properties in Greater Vancouver
over the last 12 months has increased 9.2 per cent to $630,251 in July 2011 from $577,074 in July 2010.
Sales of detached properties on the MLS® in July 2011 reached 1,099, an increase of 21 per cent from the 908
detached sales recorded in July 2010, and an 31.9 per cent decrease from the 1,614 units sold in July 2009. The
benchmark price for detached properties increased 13.3 per cent from July 2010 to $898,886.
Sales of apartment properties reached 1,040 in July 2011, a 6.2 per cent increase compared to the 979 sales in
July 2010, and a decrease of 39.1 per cent compared to the 1,708 sales in July 2009. The benchmark price of an
apartment property increased 4.5 per cent from July 2010 to $405,306.
Attached property sales in July 2011 totalled 432, a 17.4 per cent increase compared to the 368 sales in July
2010, and a 45.5 per cent decrease from the 792 attached properties sold in July 2009. The benchmark price of an
attached unit increased 6.9 per cent between July 2010 and 2011 to $524,909.
 
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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:55 pm

Thank you for your reply Barrie, it was fun to be reminded of just how hopelessly wrong Taipan was when he called for the inevitable correction way back in 2011. Guessing the short-term direction of the market has always been a mug's game. :lol:

Although the trip down memory lane was amusing I'm not sure how it qualifies as a reply to my post, it sounded like a hissy-fit to me, as in "maybe we've been caught fibbing but Taipan made a wrong guess in 2011 - so there!", but perhaps I misinterpreted your point.

Anyway, getting back to the actual subject of the current thread, your original post stated:
BC Homes sales posts strongest October in the last 4 years.
That was a bold and impressive statement which, if true, could spur people to embrace the "buy now or be priced out forever" meme which seems to be so popular in your industry. It was predictable that some sceptics might look a little more closely at the statistics which support your claim - they did and the data appears to be flawed.

Are you able to rebut the claims (of numerous independent observers) that the real estate industry's numbers are artificially inflated and unreliable? Can you provide verifiable evidence that the industry numbers are accurate?

Here's another sample of what others are saying about the industry's numbers. This example is from "The Greater Fool" blog:
Susan’s note reached me the same day CREA pushed its latest numbers onto the media, creating the meme of a vibrant real estate market. Sales in August jumped 11.1% from the same month last year, the realtors said, and prices are ahead 8.4%. Unknown, though, is the number of sold houses which were counted two or three times, as listings were double- and triple-listed on various boards, as I showed you last week.

Also, are the headline numbers even accurate? Are they correct? Would people reading them be lulled into believing it’s okay to buy a house at an inflated level, because the market’s strongly rising? If so, would they be misled?

It’s hard to tell. CREA said on Monday, “National home sales rose 2.8% from July to August.” But this is apparently untrue. Here are the realtor’s monthly reports for June, July and August. Read each and you’ll be able to determine the total number of monthly sales across Canada. In July 44,797 properties changed hands. In August, deals totaled 40,315. Yup, that’s a 10% decline – not a 2.8% increase. The magnitude of the ruse is significant Not a rounding error, or a difference of interpretation, but an apparent falsehood.
The reference to "an apparent falsehood" screams for a convincing rebuttal and, although I enjoy reading your completely unrelated responses to Taipan's bad guesses, they don't address the issue of accusations about the real estate industry fudging its numbers.

The evidence that your industry is publishing false statistics appears fairly compelling, is it true?

I understand from your earlier post that "to the best of your knowledge" the numbers are accurate but, given the very serious questions which are now showing up in various media, do you not think it might be worth closer investigation on your part? Surely it is in your best interest to disprove these potentially damaging claims.

Perhaps the CREA has already commenced proceedings for libel against the people making these accusations. As an industry insider do you know if they have? If they haven't, do you know why not? If they are left unchallenged these claims could dramatically undermine the presumed integrity of your industry, if they are groundless don't they invite vigorous rebuttals and legal action of the strongest kind?

Your insider view of this situation would be appreciated.
In fond memory of Taipan, a model of modesty, decency, dignity and tolerance. Long may we all prosper from the tremendous legacy of worldly wisdom and specialized real estate knowledge which he left in the "Arguments" thread.
 
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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:33 pm

The point is there is a lot of discussion not backed up with facts.
The main reporting for stats comes from the Real Estate Boards. You show me a couple of articles that you belive is fact.
You believe what are your facts and I'll believe in mine. If the boards info is all wrong why bother reading them.
 
Geyser
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Re: What's your Thoughts About This? B Vattoy Realtor

Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:52 pm

The point is there is a lot of discussion not backed up with facts.
The main reporting for stats comes from the Real Estate Boards. You show me a couple of articles that you belive is fact.
You believe what are your facts and I'll believe in mine. If the boards info is all wrong why bother reading them.
Wow, touchy, touchy, did I hit a raw nerve?

Numerous facts were presented and I asked you for a rebuttal but I was expecting something a bit more rational, substantial and enlightening. In the absence of any persuasive facts from you it seems appropriate to assume that the facts presented by the cynics do add up to a compelling condemnation of the "Frankenumbers" and I agree that the industry numbers are probably not worth the bother of reading them, particularly when it appears that the industry is not outraged by the articles and has simply fallen silent. If the statements are libelous why aren't they suing???

You obviously feel the numbers are worth the bother of posting yet you refuse to defend them in any meaningful way, why is that? Do you see them as a useful marketing tool but unworthy of defence?

The questions are pretty straightforward :

Does the BCREA consolidate numbers drawn from all the BC boards?

If so, do they have a system for detecting and adjusting for sales reported for listings on more than one board?

Various other flaws in the methodology were pointed out, are they inaccurate? If so, what evidence do you have?

Come on Barrie, tell us why you think the accusations of number-fudging are false and hich specific claims do you think are unsubstantiated?

Why is it so hard to extract a meaningful answer from you?
In fond memory of Taipan, a model of modesty, decency, dignity and tolerance. Long may we all prosper from the tremendous legacy of worldly wisdom and specialized real estate knowledge which he left in the "Arguments" thread.

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