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eyesthebye2
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:33 am

I leave the stock investing to my pension fund. They are massive group that know what they are doing. My pension is guaranteed regardless if stock market crashes...I really dont trust that there will not be a stampede away from the market one day. Eay to much profit on the table to not worry about that.
that person is just a little upturned that he/she/it made a little money gambling on the stock market while you get income from your house handed to you and locked in pensions. I see it all the time on union boards and the like. People tend to be Olympic level proud they gambled in stocks.
Good point tdma.
Why are some non homeowners begrudging equity gains in their homw while boasting about big paper profits in stocks. Nobody is wishing for a crash in that market so the can buy in a 50 cents on the dollar.
Same with my pension.
Certainly a lot of bear envy going on here. The attitude is petty and childish...like I have ice cream, and they throw a tantrum because they have cotton candy but really like ice cream better.
 
westcoastfella
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:45 am

Good point tdma.
Why are some non homeowners begrudging equity gains in houses while boasting about big paper profits in stocks?Nobody is wishing for a crash in that market so we can buy in a 50 cents on the dollar.
Same with my pension.

Certainly a lot of bear envy going on here. The attitude is petty and childish...like I have ice cream, and they throw a tantrum because they have cotton candy but really like ice cream better.
I bet its because they dont have the cotton candy they say they do LOL
No one is begrudging any gains anywhere, and there is no envy - why do you always fall back to the envy argument when you don't want to justify or defend your own comments?
You made a statement that the stock market is going suddenly disappear, "stampede for the doors", "don't be left holding the bag", "day of reckoning"... while naively assuming that while this catastrophic economic event happens, your home value and pension will remain intact and see you through retirement.  I'm just trying to understand how you manage to reconcile those 2 very different worlds, and point out that you don't actually seem to understand the value of the stock market, or what it means to your way of life - and therefore how ridiculous your statements sound.
 
tdma800
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:12 am

I leave the stock investing to my pension fund. They are massive group that know what they are doing. My pension is guaranteed regardless if stock market crashes...I really dont trust that there will not be a stampede away from the market one day. Eay to much profit on the table to not worry about that.
that person is just a little upturned that he/she/it made a little money gambling on the stock market while you get income from your house handed to you and locked in pensions. I see it all the time on union boards and the like. People tend to be Olympic level proud they gambled in stocks.
Good point tdma.
Why are some non homeowners begrudging equity gains in their homw while boasting about big paper profits in stocks. Nobody is wishing for a crash in that market so the can buy in a 50 cents on the dollar.
Same with my pension.
Certainly a lot of bear envy going on here. The attitude is petty and childish...like I have ice cream, and they throw a tantrum because they have cotton candy but really like ice cream better.
The primary difference between Canada and the US is, besides the obvious lack of a limit in a primary residence exemption in Canada is that while Americans think about "the Man' is keeping them down, they by and large don't display high levels of drool and/or display that they want what others have that they cant have  But canadians in general would prefer nobody to have it rather than some people have it, and if someone has something better, bring them down to their level.
For example, if a company such as Concord developed too many towers to bring sales prices down and sold them , then some stayed empty, Canadians would get upset even if all the tradespeople were fully paid for their work, just because "some people made  money off of it, People get upset that OMG!! an empty condo! thats BAD!. someone made a profit!"

Most people don't realize that if enough people really cared , it  would be easy to mandate all sorts of funny laws like: need a canadian passport to buy a home in vancouver, cant make more than 20% profit when you sell your home, change all realtors commission to a flat $50 an hour, etc. Thats all possible through the BC recall and initiatve act and the notwithstanding clause. the answer is that there is not enough besides the occasional person with envy to pass such a thing
 
tdma800
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:13 am

Good point tdma.
Why are some non homeowners begrudging equity gains in houses while boasting about big paper profits in stocks?Nobody is wishing for a crash in that market so we can buy in a 50 cents on the dollar.
Same with my pension.

Certainly a lot of bear envy going on here. The attitude is petty and childish...like I have ice cream, and they throw a tantrum because they have cotton candy but really like ice cream better.
I bet its because they dont have the cotton candy they say they do LOL
No one is begrudging any gains anywhere, and there is no envy - why do you always fall back to the envy argument when you don't want to justify or defend your own comments?
You made a statement that the stock market is going suddenly disappear, "stampede for the doors", "don't be left holding the bag", "day of reckoning"... while naively assuming that while this catastrophic economic event happens, your home value and pension will remain intact and see you through retirement.  I'm just trying to understand how you manage to reconcile those 2 very different worlds, and point out that you don't actually seem to understand the value of the stock market, or what it means to your way of life - and therefore how ridiculous your statements sound.
If it was not envy then people wouldn't be complaining both online and in public when someone can buy another thing that they cant afford and leave it empty, such as a home or a condo.
 
rofina
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:30 am

I leave the stock investing to my pension fund. They are massive group that know what they are doing. My pension is guaranteed regardless if stock market crashes...I really dont trust that there will not be a stampede away from the market one day. Eay to much profit on the table to not worry about that.
that person is just a little upturned that he/she/it made a little money gambling on the stock market while you get income from your house handed to you and locked in pensions. I see it all the time on union boards and the like. People tend to be Olympic level proud they gambled in stocks.
Good point tdma.
Why are some non homeowners begrudging equity gains in houses while boasting about big paper profits in stocks?Nobody is wishing for a crash in that market so we can buy in a 50 cents on the dollar.
Same with my pension.

Certainly a lot of bear envy going on here. The attitude is petty and childish...like I have ice cream, and they throw a tantrum because they have cotton candy but really like ice cream better.
I bet its because they dont have the cotton candy they say they do LOL
For one a home is shelter, do you think its beneficial to you and I, our city, and society at large if a vast majority of people can't afford a roof over their head? 

Second, stocks are purpose built for investment - equity markets, thats why the they exist to fund growth and progress of companies, and allow the public to participate in the success of business they may otherwise never have access to. Seems rather positive, no?

Third, your pension is likely 60% invested in stocks, with remainder in fixed income, other paper, and some RE holdings. If any type of 2008 calamity happens, government pensions, funds, payrolls etc, are will be just as hurting as joe dirt day trader, and likely even more hurting because their position sizes are massive and very difficult to liquidate.

Fourth and last point - fiat money. There is not enough money in the world at any given time, to repay all the debt issued. If markets cave like in 08, for a prolonged period of time, credit dries up, this briefly happened in 2008. If credit dries up - no one opens their doors on Monday, because 95% of companies, including municipalities and cities will not be able to make payroll without access to their revolving credit agreements.

The stability of the system you seems to put a lot of weight into is a lot more precarious than you think. This is not an endorsement of doom and gloom, and the coming collapse, obviously there is massively more incentive to keep the party going, and I think exactly that will happen. However, lets not pretend that its not a house of cards. 
 
tdma800
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:39 am


that person is just a little upturned that he/she/it made a little money gambling on the stock market while you get income from your house handed to you and locked in pensions. I see it all the time on union boards and the like. People tend to be Olympic level proud they gambled in stocks.
Good point tdma.
Why are some non homeowners begrudging equity gains in houses while boasting about big paper profits in stocks?Nobody is wishing for a crash in that market so we can buy in a 50 cents on the dollar.
Same with my pension.

Certainly a lot of bear envy going on here. The attitude is petty and childish...like I have ice cream, and they throw a tantrum because they have cotton candy but really like ice cream better.
I bet its because they dont have the cotton candy they say they do LOL
For one a home is shelter, do you think its beneficial to you and I, our city, and society at large if a vast majority of people can't afford a roof over their head? 

Second, stocks are purpose built for investment - equity markets, thats why the they exist to fund growth and progress of companies, and allow the public to participate in the success of business they may otherwise never have access to. Seems rather positive, no?

Third, your pension is likely 60% invested in stocks, with remainder in fixed income, other paper, and some RE holdings. If any type of 2008 calamity happens, government pensions, funds, payrolls etc, are will be just as hurting as joe dirt day trader, and likely even more hurting because their position sizes are massive and very difficult to liquidate.

Fourth and last point - fiat money. There is not enough money in the world at any given time, to repay all the debt issued. If markets cave like in 08, for a prolonged period of time, credit dries up, this briefly happened in 2008. If credit dries up - no one opens their doors on Monday, because 95% of companies, including municipalities and cities will not be able to make payroll without access to their revolving credit agreements.

The stability of the system you seems to put a lot of weight into is a lot more precarious than you think. This is not an endorsement of doom and gloom, and the coming collapse, obviously there is massively more incentive to keep the party going, and I think exactly that will happen. However, lets not pretend that its not a house of cards. 
Where does it say that everyone is required to be able to have a discount house in the best areas of BC? lol. There are many cheaper areas available outside of Vancouver. Things are fine the way it is.  You think its beneficial if it was such a lousy place to live that your house was still worth $300,000 today as it was 15 years ago?   Anyone who looks into it knows that there isnt a large amount of homeless in Metro Vancouver.  People need to live within their means instead of with a garage, 2.2 kids, a yard, and a dog named spot.   If you're concerned about your job just buy mortgage insurance(not life) for that.  And if you're a business owner, then use the appropriate bank for your borrowing as some, such as TD have insurance for that, even for self employed persons.
 
VanBullBear
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:50 am

Good point tdma.
Why are some non homeowners begrudging equity gains in houses while boasting about big paper profits in stocks?Nobody is wishing for a crash in that market so we can buy in a 50 cents on the dollar.
Same with my pension.

Certainly a lot of bear envy going on here. The attitude is petty and childish...like I have ice cream, and they throw a tantrum because they have cotton candy but really like ice cream better.
I bet its because they dont have the cotton candy they say they do LOL
No one is begrudging any gains anywhere, and there is no envy - why do you always fall back to the envy argument when you don't want to justify or defend your own comments?
You made a statement that the stock market is going suddenly disappear, "stampede for the doors", "don't be left holding the bag", "day of reckoning"... while naively assuming that while this catastrophic economic event happens, your home value and pension will remain intact and see you through retirement.  I'm just trying to understand how you manage to reconcile those 2 very different worlds, and point out that you don't actually seem to understand the value of the stock market, or what it means to your way of life - and therefore how ridiculous your statements sound.
It's quite transparent that ETB and TDMA speak before they think, they aren't the sharpest tool in the shed.
These guys have no idea how markets work, but they sure talk a lot about it.

Comparing housing to stocks as an investment vehicle thinking they are market geniuses because they bought a home and the prices went up. ReallyReal said it best, people get confused with skill and luck, it's like rolling a 6-sided dice and calling an odd number, and when a 3 comes up they boast about it and call it genius.
It's clear to everyone in this board that these two have no idea how stocks or markets work.

If you want to compare housing to a stock, you need to look at housing as a highly leveraged investment (i don't advice in looking to housing as an investment but each to their own).
To get in position you only need 20%. So the leverage is 5 to 1.

If you buy a 1,000,000 dollar home with a $200,000 down-payment and say your house goes up 10% in a year, the new worth is 1,100,000. You're up 100,000 from your 200,000 investment. this means a 10% increase in the "stock" (home in this case)  has given you a yield of 50% increase from y our 200,000 down payment (50% to 10% thus 5 to 1 leverage).

Conversely, if the house goes down by 10%, the house is worth 900,000. Which means you are down 100,000 from your initial 200,000. A 10% decrease in the stock resulted in a 50% loss in comparison to your down-payment (again 5 to 1 leverage).

Keep in mind this is not putting into account the monthly mortgage payment, which will decrease the leverage, but it's highly leveraged none the less.

Now if you compare this to the s&p500 index (since ETB is looking for a portfolio that can outperform housing), from 2009 to today, the S&P 500 has tripled(300%) in price.
A 5 to 1 leveraged investment in the S&P500 from 2009 would have yielded %1500 gain (5 x 300%) which significantly outperforms any real-estate market anywhere.

As for money disappearing from the stock, that's just plain lack of knowledge and ETB just being... ETB.
You can set STOPS to manage your risk. Stops let you auto-sell your position if the price goes down by a certain amount.

I don't expect ETB to understand this post, I just want to put some perspective into this discussion.
 
yzfr1
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:10 am


For one a home is shelter, do you think its beneficial to you and I, our city, and society at large if a vast majority of people can't afford a roof over their head? 

Second, stocks are purpose built for investment - equity markets, thats why the they exist to fund growth and progress of companies, and allow the public to participate in the success of business they may otherwise never have access to. Seems rather positive, no?

Third, your pension is likely 60% invested in stocks, with remainder in fixed income, other paper, and some RE holdings. If any type of 2008 calamity happens, government pensions, funds, payrolls etc, are will be just as hurting as joe dirt day trader, and likely even more hurting because their position sizes are massive and very difficult to liquidate.

Fourth and last point - fiat money. There is not enough money in the world at any given time, to repay all the debt issued. If markets cave like in 08, for a prolonged period of time, credit dries up, this briefly happened in 2008. If credit dries up - no one opens their doors on Monday, because 95% of companies, including municipalities and cities will not be able to make payroll without access to their revolving credit agreements.

The stability of the system you seems to put a lot of weight into is a lot more precarious than you think. This is not an endorsement of doom and gloom, and the coming collapse, obviously there is massively more incentive to keep the party going, and I think exactly that will happen. However, lets not pretend that its not a house of cards. 
Stock markets are a positive for people who understand why they are investing in. People on this forum have demonstrated a very basic understanding of equites. The problem I have with stocks is that every harry dick and tom tries to invest their money into something they don''t understand and frankly have no buisness investing in. Even buying mutual funds at a bank is stupid when you just listen to what the advisor "suggests" Most people should just leave their money inside a GIC. At least make a attempt to try to learn about how the fincial market works, some basic terms. Shorting / options / EPS ect ect ect.

To have the idea that something is "100% secure" is naive. Not even pensions, they are heavily tied into the markets. TDMA aslways says "insurance" this and insurance that. What if the insurance firm goes insolven. Look up AIG. Insurance firms do not have capital to cover their entire exposure. If 2008 credit crisis happens again its game over.

Having said that, pension plan is a good idea in a diverse portfolio. They tend to sit long term which historically speaking is a good thing. Over the long run if you can ride out the peaks and valleys you will do well. Also companies matching contributions is also like free money and a benefit from the company. It would be stupid not to take advantage of it.

The whole world is playing musical chairs at the moment. As I stated before, the fiat fractional reserve system we went on after abandoning the gold standard is a bankrupt system. Its not a matter of if the system will crash. BUT when will it happen. Money is created out of debt, but there is intererst. There will be a point where creating money wont be enough to pay off the interest accrued.

The best way to defend all of this is simple. Limit your exposure. If you are self contained you can better weather to storm..

#1 have low dept. No crazy mortgages. I will be done Ina few years with not much balance left. Doesn't matter if the interest rate goes to 150% Or if the RE market crashes to $2. I can live in my house peacefully

#2 Have a balanced portfolio. Stocks, RRSP, Realestate, some gold under your pillow. 1 Years worth of liquid cash so that if you get fired from your job you can survive without going insolvent right away.

Owing money is the number 1 killer. The market has you by the ballls.

This is why I advocate buying something you can afford. Pay it off fast. When you own property free and clear you are far ahead of the game. You dont need to worry about rising rents. If interest rates go to 25%. It just adds a level of stability. Everyone needs a place to live no matter what.
 
tdma800
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:15 am

Evidently its very obvious that Van is full of Bull, and envy as well, and talks prior to calculating, and for sure is not the most clever thing in the dormitory
 
tdma800
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:21 am

I leave the stock investing to my pension fund. They are massive group that know what they are doing. My pension is guaranteed regardless if stock market crashes...I really dont trust that there will not be a stampede away from the market one day. Eay to much profit on the table to not worry about that.
that person is just a little upturned that he/she/it made a little money gambling on the stock market while you get income from your house handed to you and locked in pensions. I see it all the time on union boards and the like. People tend to be Olympic level proud they gambled in stocks.
Good point tdma.
Why are some non homeowners begrudging equity gains in their homw while boasting about big paper profits in stocks. Nobody is wishing for a crash in that market so the can buy in a 50 cents on the dollar.
Same with my pension.
Certainly a lot of bear envy going on here. The attitude is petty and childish...like I have ice cream, and they throw a tantrum because they have cotton candy but really like ice cream better.
Gambling in the stock market is foolish and I would never tell people to do that nor let someone do it. The problem with that is all the taxes that have to be paid. People don't need to do all that complex drivel when they can get a decent job, buy a home to live in themselves and possibly rent the basement, and enjoy the unlimited tax free gains of paying off their mortgage early.

Intelligent people know that company provided products, especially pensions are what people drool after all the time. You can see that in the people that complain that Walmart doesnt allow Unions People want to bring others down to their level when they dont have something, in this case a pension.

Anyone who actually lives in Vancouver and knows what is available in the market won't be complaining. You dont even need a stereotypical job.  You could be a homemarker with a self made business or a conventional sole propietor.  Some banks(dont need need a line of credit, just a normal visa card) do cover losses even those not related to traditional full time employment.

People not in the know talk about other companies that are not even Canadian. LOL.

Finally, anyone thats actually READ what a bank offers in Canada knows that you dont have to be 'sick' or 'pass away' or 'be disabled' to get benefits to pay your mortgage. A commom John Smith can easily get insured for job loss to pay his mortgage.
 
tdma800
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:29 am


Stock markets are a positive for people who understand why they are investing in.
Stock markets are for people that want to gamble with their savings and pay a lot of unnecessary taxes.
if a person was able to gamble in the stock market to the tune of  $2,000 a month from 2001 to to 2006 that's $120,000. Regardless of where it was put, the profits will be taxable, including if it was an RRSP.

if someone was really lucky in the gamble the profit would be over a million dollars today, all taxable when the money is withdrawn even at the age of 65.

if that person was lucky in the choice of house, the profit of over a million would be free of taxes when the home is sold at any age.

even if the TFSA was available during that time thats only $6,000 a year, and that doesnt even begin to include the money thrown away on rent.
 
VanLord
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:49 am

Finally, anyone thats actually READ what a bank offers in Canada knows that you dont have to be 'sick' or 'pass away' or 'be disabled' to get benefits to pay your mortgage. A commom John Smith can easily get insured for job loss to pay his mortgage
Haha you are hilarious...What happens if you get fired for cause...sorry claim denied!!  you talk about things you have no clue about.  Please go READ how this insurance works.  If you can tell me what the pre-requisite is to collect on this job loss insurance product and how long it lasts, I'll give you some credit, (and you will know its pretty useless) but you clearly have no clue about this sort of thing, or really anything, to do with real estate, markets or wealth creation.
You took the time in your last couple posts to actually write something vs. lame one sentence crap, but then you couldn't come up with anything better than incorrect statements again!
 
tdma800
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:51 am

Good point tdma.
Why are some non homeowners begrudging equity gains in houses while boasting about big paper profits in stocks?Nobody is wishing for a crash in that market so we can buy in a 50 cents on the dollar.
Same with my pension.

Certainly a lot of bear envy going on here. The attitude is petty and childish...like I have ice cream, and they throw a tantrum because they have cotton candy but really like ice cream better.
I bet its because they dont have the cotton candy they say they do LOL
No one is begrudging any gains anywhere, and there is no envy - why do you always fall back to the envy argument when you don't want to justify or defend your own comments?
You made a statement that the stock market is going suddenly disappear, "stampede for the doors", "don't be left holding the bag", "day of reckoning"... while naively assuming that while this catastrophic economic event happens, your home value and pension will remain intact and see you through retirement.  I'm just trying to understand how you manage to reconcile those 2 very different worlds, and point out that you don't actually seem to understand the value of the stock market, or what it means to your way of life - and therefore how ridiculous your statements sound.
Comparing housing to stocks as an investment vehicle thinking they are market geniuses because they bought a home and the prices went 

If you want to compare housing to a stock, you need to look at housing as a highly leveraged investment (i don't advice in looking to housing as an investment but each to their own).
To get in position you only need 20%. So the leverage is 5 to 1.

If you buy a 1,000,000 dollar home with a $200,000 down-payment and say your house goes up 10% in a year, the new worth is 1,100,000. You're up 100,000 from your 200,000 investment. this means a 10% increase in the "stock" (home in this case)  has given you a yield of 50% increase from y our 200,000 down payment (50% to 10% thus 5 to 1 leverage).

I don't expect ETB to understand this post, I just want to put some(wrong) perspective into this discussion.
You don't need to consider a house as anything but an investment. If its not an investment, then rent from someone in Vancouver that doesnt care  about profit. If you were actually in Vancouver you'd know that there are landlords out there that dont raise the rent for years and years.\
You're simply just showing envy in another way that someone made big on a stable investment while you had to gamble in the stock market.
$200,000 Down payment?   Its simply an investment into something that will generate a tax free income by paying less interest on a mortgage and by selling the home later, all without taxes.
Thats same $200,000 gambled in the stock market would be taxable. A TFSA isnt nearly big enough to hold that amount, at just $5,000 a year.
 
tdma800
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:52 am

Finally, anyone thats actually READ what a bank offers in Canada knows that you dont have to be 'sick' or 'pass away' or 'be disabled' to get benefits to pay your mortgage. A commom John Smith can easily get insured for job loss to pay his mortgage
Haha you are hilarious..
What you say is what you are
 
VanLord
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Re: Vancouver indvidual property sales details

Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:54 am


Stock markets are a positive for people who understand why they are investing in. People on this forum have demonstrated a very basic understanding of equites. The problem I have with stocks is that every harry dick and tom tries to invest their money into something they don''t understand and frankly have no buisness investing in. Even buying mutual funds at a bank is stupid when you just listen to what the advisor "suggests" Most people should just leave their money inside a GIC. At least make a attempt to try to learn about how the fincial market works, some basic terms. Shorting / options / EPS ect ect ect.
Yes people should make an attempt to learn about the markets, and maybe for some its best to leave it in a GIC, but the problem with that is you are losing ground against inflation every year and you are taxed at the highest rate on any interest earned (outside TFSA or RRSP)...Better to put it in an Index fund or blue chip fund that pays out dividends, but I agree you should have at least a basic understanding of the markets and what you are buying...especially when it goes south for a while, so that you don't panic sell.

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