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oli
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:45 am

If the TREB does lose, I wonder if there will be zillow like websites coming to Canada.
There is no chance for that. In Canada MLS rules. Private websites are around but totally ineffective. In the US there are severals MLS's but nothing like the Canadian MLS.
I think TREB is fighting a losing battle wasting their realtors money. Restricting information in the age of the click won't get you very far. Threatening realtors with suspension if they make data abilable to clients or potential clients is plain stupid.

The MLS has been created, paid for and maintained by realtors, so, yes they have the rights to it, but according to the Competition Bureau, with certain limits. I can see the CB's point of view in trying to open up the MLS for true competition, but unfortunately for them ... the Real Estate boards are better negotiators.
But are private websites only ineffective because they don't have the data?

Realtors do pay for the system. But the system itself is just a vault that locks up the data. The actual data itself is public information.
 
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silverman
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:02 pm

But are private websites only ineffective because they don't have the data?
They are ineffective because they provide practically no exposure to properties for sale. If you want to sell your property you want potential buyers and realtors to know about it and to be able to find your home easily and quickly. The MLS does that.

Realtors interested in that kind of property and potential buyers who subscribe to email notifications set their search criteria as to price, location, square footage etc and get auto notifications within minutes of the listing hitting the system. With all the info about the home properly displayed. And if there is any change later on, like a price reduction, they get another email notification.

No private website can even scratch the surface of the exposure MLS provides.
 
westcoastfella
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:13 pm

Realtors do pay for the system. But the system itself is just a vault that locks up the data. The actual data itself is public information.
If this is public information, then there is nothing stopping you (or anyone) from compiling this data and presenting it for the public to use and enjoy. You will of course need to track it all down, build a database to store it, build a website to present it, pay for all the costs associated with presenting it (computer hardware, hosting costs, internet access, power consumption). Seeing as the data constantly changes, you'll also need to make sure you constantly update the data with any additions/changes/deletions, so that your viewers have access to real time relevant data. Sounds easy....

Why should MLS boards - that have gone to all the trouble and cost of doing this themselves - feel obliged to share their data with you for free?
 
oli
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:12 pm

Realtors do pay for the system. But the system itself is just a vault that locks up the data. The actual data itself is public information.
If this is public information, then there is nothing stopping you (or anyone) from compiling this data and presenting it for the public to use and enjoy. You will of course need to track it all down, build a database to store it, build a website to present it, pay for all the costs associated with presenting it (computer hardware, hosting costs, internet access, power consumption). Seeing as the data constantly changes, you'll also need to make sure you constantly update the data with any additions/changes/deletions, so that your viewers have access to real time relevant data. Sounds easy....

Why should MLS boards - that have gone to all the trouble and cost of doing this themselves - feel obliged to share their data with you for free?
There's a fine line between using the data to be anti-competitive and using the data as a competitive advantage.

If Realtors' main business is on selling data and analysis like Landcor, then yes, charging for it is justified. But the reality is Realtors use this data as leverage to force their services onto consumers. It's pretty impossible for the average seller/buyer to price properly without going through a Realtor to retrieve this info.

Plus, if this system cost/ownership/proprietary data argument is really sound, wouldn't TREB use this in their defence instead of citing privacy concerns?
 
Austin
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:26 pm

Realtors will go on and on and on and talk forever about this. Facts are very very simple and straightforward though. This is not a privacy issue. All this info is freely available, it's just painfully delayed.

It's a simple matter of a conspiracy against the laity, in the words of shaw. Or Adam Smith: "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."
Redistribute consumption, not income.
 
thinktom
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:19 am

Realtors will go on and on and on and talk forever about this. Facts are very very simple and straightforward though. This is not a privacy issue.
Lol. You obviously did not think through that comment whatsoever.

Ask the majority of strata owner if they want to have THEIR Minutes, Financials, Form B's etc.. available for every person in BC to see. I know the answer. Do you have an idea how much legal information is there that is ABSOLUTELY NONE of anyones business except the homeowners??

Ask any homeowner if the public has the right to access every single part of their investment without any reason at all. I know the answer to that as well.

Have you ever actually read a listing agreement? Half of it is the right to privacy for the homeowner.

As for solds, the information, ONCE IT HAS COMPLETED, is available publically. However, once a deal is firm the public is not aware of it because it hasn't 'SOLD' yet. Think about that for a second. That information should not be made public until it is actually a deal.

Before you start blindly accusing Realtors of 'going on and on' you might want to make sure you know what you're talking about.
 
oli
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:36 am

Actually, strata documents are available to the public, you just have to pay for it. https://www.estratahub.com/ordering.html it's usually x cents/pg. Anyone with an email address can sign up and order these documents.

For solds, even AFTER the deal has been COMPLETED, the public can't see this info without a Realtor - that's the real issue we're talking about.
 
Austin
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:25 pm

"As for solds, the information, ONCE IT HAS COMPLETED, is available publically." It should be available for free and easily searchable, not just 'available'. This, btw, is what I was talking about when I said it's not a privacy issue.

Not sure what you are talking about. Are you saying there is information that realtors have access to and are giving out for listings that are not yet completed? Huh. Not surprising realtors would give that info away, I guess. Anything for a buck.

Frankly, any realtor who argues this point is just undermining his or her credibility. Sure wish the Competition Bureau would hurry up and smack these fools down. It's only been, what, 15 years?
Redistribute consumption, not income.
 
thinktom
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:55 pm

Actually, strata documents are available to the public, you just have to pay for it. https://www.estratahub.com/ordering.html it's usually x cents/pg. Anyone with an email address can sign up and order these documents.

For solds, even AFTER the deal has been COMPLETED, the public can't see this info without a Realtor - that's the real issue we're talking about.
There are TONS of stratas who do not allow public access to their documents.
 
thinktom
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:09 pm

Frankly, any realtor who argues this point is just undermining his or her credibility. Sure wish the Competition Bureau would hurry up and smack these fools down. It's only been, what, 15 years?
Frankly, anyone who talks about 'smacking fools down' undermines his or her credibility to point of being a laughable joke. Keep it up. You sound brilliant.
 
Austin
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:43 pm

Final submissions in the case are set to take place in Ottawa on November 2! God, I hope they finally start to bust up this freaking monopoly.
Redistribute consumption, not income.
 
oli
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:51 pm

There are TONS of stratas who do not allow public access to their documents.
Is it written in their bylaws? How do they regulate this? Strata agent only gives access to people with their face on bus benches?
 
oli
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:59 pm

Final submissions in the case are set to take place in Ottawa on November 2! God, I hope they finally start to bust up this freaking monopoly.
Nah, the monopoly lives on. In the US, people have access to this data, but Realtors are still prevalent and rates are still high.

The biggest reason: Buyers using Realtors for "free" keeps the party going.

I do think that over time when people become more familiar with the steps and data is more accessible, commissions will come down.
 
tdma800
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:17 am

its already half the price in bc
 
oli
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Re: TREB vs Competition Bureau on Real Estate Data (sold pri

Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:01 am

its already half the price in bc
Half the price compared to Ontario/US? Still tens of thousands of dollars though, especially given BC prices...

Big rip off imo. I know there's tons of costs for realtors but the fee right now is too ridiculous. Totally not proportional to the amount of services provided.

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