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Austin
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:29 pm

Work with a buyer for a year or two, with all that it entails, and then not be compensated when they finally buy?? Sure. No problem
Fine, be that way, but you need to be 100% clear with your buyer that you won't show them FSBOs. Maybe you do, maybe you don't (any clients of Tom that an attest?) However - I've never met a buyer agent that does this.
The more I hear people complain about Realtors the more I think they're complaining they aren't capable of discriminating the good from the bad.
You have to understand that a very large # of people aren't professional property traders. They're relying on their realtor to tell them everything and work in their best interests.

I've sold property that was near FSBO (set fee for the company that listed and gave me a sign) - listed with FULL commission to the buyer agent, easily underpriced to the market. Took forever for someone to buy it.

Buyer agents avoid FSBOs because they mess with the commission structure. All professions are a conspiracy against the laeity..
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jesse1
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:36 pm

listed with FULL commission to the buyer agent, easily underpriced to the market. Took forever for someone to buy it.
Buyer agents avoid FSBOs because they mess with the commission structure
OK so if I understand the comments here, the buyer agent won't take full commission because it messes with the commission structure.
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Austin
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:12 am

Obviously there was near zero seller agent commision, and yes, believe it or not, some buyer agents also act as seller agents and see FSBOs a threat to their livelihood even if they offer full buyers commissions.

You'll find the vast majority of buyer agents do NOT warn you about not showing FSBOs unless you ask them specifically. Most newbs do not know to ask this pivotal question and it REALLY should not be up to them to ask. Christ, it's the whole point of getting a realtor - to find the perfect property for you!

I am floored that anyone would ever defend this practice. It's frankly deceptive and completely monopolistic.

And how the hell does the buyer agent commission matter when the Realtor is going to present the property? Just think that through for a freaking second. Are you saying that realtors should show properties based on commission structures rather than on what their client needs?

Can you imagine the honest presentation that starts that conversation? We'll show you properties as long as we're paid well by the seller to do. Christ, why get a buyer agent... I want a house that's perfect for my needs, not one that paid my realtor well.

LOL! Anyways, the #1 thing I advise all sellers / FSBOs to do is full buyers commission, maybe even juice it up a bit. Why? Because we all know the scam that is going on here.

Frankly, the solution here is for realtors to work on retainers and hourly rates.
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barrievattoy
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:39 am

One item that is missing. Realtors cannot trust the information that is provided such as easements,oil tanks, Heritage status,former grow ops,lot size age and conddition of the roof,plumbing ete. etc. Realtors are liable and have to make sure these things are checked out before his or her buyer purchases the property. There's is more to selling a FSBO than just writing up the contract.

B. Vattoy
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thinktom
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:37 am

One item that is missing. Realtors cannot trust the information that is provided such as easements,oil tanks, Heritage status,former grow ops,lot size age and conddition of the roof,plumbing ete. etc. Realtors are liable and have to make sure these things are checked out before his or her buyer purchases the property. There's is more to selling a FSBO than just writing up the contract.

B. Vattoy
http://www.relocationbc.com
Sq footage....etc. Yep, full disclosure isn't always first and foremost with some of them.
 
thinktom
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:43 am

Work with a buyer for a year or two, with all that it entails, and then not be compensated when they finally buy?? Sure. No problem
Fine, be that way, but you need to be 100% clear with your buyer that you won't show them FSBOs. Maybe you do, maybe you don't (any clients of Tom that an attest?) However - I've never met a buyer agent that does this.
Just exactly how many buyer agents have you 'met'?
 
Austin
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:58 am

About 10 or so, I'd say. Not one of them told me up front they don't show listings with zero buyer agent commissions (e.g. FSBOs) and that I'd have to pay the commission for those if I wanted to see them.

Anyways - so say it loud ThinkTom, so I can quote you to everyone I know.

Do the majority of Buy Agents ignore the commission fee listed for the properties or not?

Now - If they don't ignore it, do they spell it out *CLEARLY* to their clients before hand that they will only show properties with full buyer agent commission?

Somehow I really really doubt you're going to answer that question unequivocally.

I'm imagining right now, something like, 'oh I don't know what other realtors do...'
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Austin
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:12 pm

But I tell you what... for kicks, we should try an experiment.

Select some random place in canada, find a FSBO listing with 0% buyer agent commission that perfectly matches our budget and needs, and then email a realtor in the area for listings because we're interested in that area.

How much do you want to bet that the majority of the realtors do not include that property in their list they provide us? And the ones that don't, NONE OF THEM tell us they excluded the FSBO listing because they don't show houses that don't pay them?
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jesse1
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:23 pm

How much do you want to bet that the majority of the realtors do not include that property in their list they provide us
A Realtor I worked with a while ago (10+ years ago) showed us FSBO but he said not to get our hopes up, they had additional risks associated with either incompetent sellers not understanding the law or sellers with unrealistic expectations on how negotiations will go. He is a family friend and he had no reason to lie to me. There are other reasons FSBOs are shown the cold shoulder, not least that Realtors want to get paid and, as others have mentioned, there are risks to the Realtor not only from liability but also in exposing clients to unusual situations. Both are fungible.

FSBO isn't a problem really but if you're in a gymnasium otherwise full of idiots it's hard to tell everyone apart.
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Austin
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:35 am

Yeah, a family friend. LOL - exactly my point!

It took a certain amount of nepotism before you actually get a realtor to show you FSBO listings.

I think if a house fits your needs well, the VAST majority of buyers are willing to work though the 1 month headache of dealing with a FSBO versus having to live in a house they don't want to for the next 20 years or having to uproot their entire family again in order to do so.

A good buyer agent could manage that process and actually earn their commission for once.

Anyways, you're always going to end up in a Owner house. The seller agent just helps with the selling process, she *doesn't* fill out the disclosure document for you.

As I've said, many times, the solution to all this silliness is retainer + hourly billing.
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jesse1
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:14 am

a good buyer agent could manage that process and actually earn their commission for once
So you do understand it's more work to "manage" an FSBO, so the Realtor will be slightly averse to engaging FSBO. There are likely enough appropriate properties around listed on MLS, so why bother, really, unless the property has something valuable to offer.

I'm not aware of too many sales positions that are not commission based at the million dollar level. I don't pretend to know another compensation model is better.
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Kootenay
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:25 am

On my listing i did fill out the property disclosure paperwork and was quite willing to answer any and all questions . The next time i try and list my property in the spring i will insist that the buyers real estate agent will NOT IN ANY WAY know what the commission will be. I will demand that the commission details not be shown anywhere in the paper work. I was told by a possibly more honest realtor that the commission rate is the first thing realtors look at. As far as condition of home as a FSBO you get to ask the questions directly to the person who knows the answer not some cagey realestate agent that takes pictures at an angle as to not show rips in lino or stains in carpet or will not tell beforehand about holes in walls as to not waste your time in looking at the house.
 
Austin
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:13 am

a good buyer agent could manage that process and actually earn their commission for once
So you do understand it's more work to "manage" an FSBO, so the Realtor will be slightly averse to engaging FSBO. There are likely enough appropriate properties around listed on MLS, so why bother, really, unless the property has something valuable to offer.

I'm not aware of too many sales positions that are not commission based at the million dollar level. I don't pretend to know another compensation model is better.
A buyer agent is not a sales position! That's what the seller agent is. Geez. This is also a fundamental problem with buyer agents. There is a confusion about who they work for. Perhaps if we all agree that buyer agents work for the seller, sure, than OK let's go with that. In that case, christ, skip the buyer agent and use the freaking INTERNET!

However, I think there is a *real need* for a dedicated advocate that *works for the buyer alone* and only in his best interests. The way to get that is via retainer + hourly billing.
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WhipMaster
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:18 am

The next time i try and list my property in the spring i will insist that the buyers real estate agent will NOT IN ANY WAY know what the commission will be.
....brilliant idea. Then it will be a big surprise! Like getting a grab bag at a sale. Very innovative. :mrgreen:

But also consider reducing your price by $50,000.
You wouldn't want to appear greedy like those dirty rotten realtors. :mrgreen:
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Austin
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Re: Are REALTORS GREEDY ??

Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:19 am

On my listing i did fill out the property disclosure paperwork and was quite willing to answer any and all questions . The next time i try and list my property in the spring i will insist that the buyers real estate agent will NOT IN ANY WAY know what the commission will be. I will demand that the commission details not be shown anywhere in the paper work. I was told by a possibly more honest realtor that the commission rate is the first thing realtors look at. As far as condition of home as a FSBO you get to ask the questions directly to the person who knows the answer not some cagey realestate agent that takes pictures at an angle as to not show rips in lino or stains in carpet or will not tell beforehand about holes in walls as to not waste your time in looking at the house.
Kootenay, this approach is naive and you'll never sell anything for the reasons I pointed out. The realtors have a monopoly over the biz and you'll have to sell at a discount way above the commission that you should pay out.

My advice: just make sure what's in your listing is exactly what's in everyone elses listing and write complaint letters to the Canada equivalent of the FTC.

Also, frankly, if your house is more than 500K it makes sense to hire a realtor to sell your house. The effective % on 500K isn't so bad and a good seller agent can actually market you pretty well. Just make sure you discuss with 3 seller agents (find ones that don't sell at "sharp prices" - another scam) and compare their marketing plans. Virtual tours, websites, etc can add about 1% or 2% to your final sale price, regardless of what your realtor will tell you (and they will poo poo that, because it's work and money risk for them).

FSBO only really makes sense for bare land or commodity condos worth around 100 to 200K or so and if you don't make a lot of money yourself on an hourly basis (retired, whatever).
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